Ralph Nader, Anti-Semite?

Had Pat Buchanan made the comments below back when he was a presidential candidate, there would have been a huge controversy. Now Pat Buchanan has drawn the comments out of Ralph Nader, who he interviewed. There's a lot that Buchanan and Nader agree on -- especially that it's all the Jews' fault. Here's Nader, responding to the "Why do they hate us?" question:

[W]e are supporting the Israeli military regime with billions of dollars and ignoring both the Israeli peace movement, which is very substantial, and the Palestinian peace movement. They see a nuclear-armed Israel that could wipe out the Middle East in a weekend if it wanted to.

Here's Nader on the puppets of the Israel lobby:

They’re almost all puppets. There are two sets: Congressional puppets and White House puppets. When the chief puppeteer comes to Washington, the puppets prance.

The chief puppeteer in this fantasy world is Ariel Sharon:

The answer to your question is that instead of focusing on how to bring a peaceful settlement, both parties concede their independent judgment to the pro-Israeli lobbies in this country because they perceive them as determining the margin in some state elections and as sources of funding. They don’t appear to agree with Tom Friedman, who wrote that memorable phrase, “Ariel Sharon has Arafat under house arrest in Ramallah and Bush under house arrest in the Oval Office.”

Virtually no member of Congress can say that, and so we come to this paradoxical conclusion that there is far more freedom in Israel to discuss this than there is in the United States, which is providing billions of dollars in economic and military assistance.

Will someone ask John Kerry what he thinks about all this?

Comments

[Eamon]

How on Earth are those comments anti-Semitic?Lack of support for the sometimes tyrannical Israeli government does notequalanti-Semitism anymore than lack of support for Al-Qaeda equals anti-Islamicism, to use an extreme example. Your point is null.

[George]

It seems to me that anyone who doesn't support Israel's brutal regime is an anti-semite. I don't support Isral's policies regarding the palestinians and the theft of their land, so I guess that makes me an anti-semite too.
Strange though, jews and all arabs - Lebanese, Iraqis, Saudi Arabians, et cetera are ALSO semites!

[Mike]

Eamon: The Al Qaeda - Israel analogy is charming.

I'm fairly sure I can't change your mind about this, but I think that someone who calls Sharon the chief puppeteer and invoking the "pro-Israel lobby" in this country as answers to the "Why do they hate us? question is anti-Semitic. The statement itself may not be anti-Semetic, but the person who said it very likely is. Just as the person who refers to the Israeli government as "sometimes tyrannical" is probably anti-Semitic too -- but certainly least ignorant.

Of course, I may be ignorant too: I don't know what "Islamicism" is. But I'm pretty sure I'm agin' it.

George: Oh, so very clever! Arabs are ALSO Semities. Well, then. I should be more precise. By anti-Semitic, I mean anti-Jewish.

Your lack of support for Israel doesn't necessarily make you an anti-Semite. Even your characterization of Israel's "brutal" regime that has "stolen land" from the Palestians doesn't necessarily make you an anti-Semite -- just a fool. It's simply that I suspect that if you look within yourself, you will find that you are indeed an anti-Semite -- you don't like Israelis and you don't like Jews (yes, yes, I know -- your best friends are Jewish).

[Margot]

Of course, the other reason why Nader's statements are anti-Semitic (or, if you prefer, "anti-Jewish") is that Nader conjures up the ridiculous stereotype that Jews are somehow engaged in a conspiracy to run the world, in the nature of "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion."

Nader assumes that when Jews engage in political discourse, there is some sort of undue influence at work -- a "chief puppeteer" Jew who entices mindless non-Jewish individuals to do his bidding. No such assumption is made with other individuals or groups who assert their political beliefs, which is why Nader's comments are anti-Jewish, and not merely idiotic.

[lets be realistic]

If you believe everything you read on the internet it is apparent that every single left-wing person is an anti-semite or anti-Jewish. I think it's pathetic that some people arbitrarily make such accusations towards anybody who opposes Arial Sharon or the Israeli foreign policy. I don't like Yasser Arafat either, OK - does that make anti Palestinian??

How do Nader's statement support a conspiracy that Jews want to rule the world? He is talking about a handful of people, those of whom who are Jewish make less that 0.000001% of the Jewish people - fuck! he's talking about some BIG conspiracy.

The world is full of dodgy individuals with dangerous aspirations for how the world should be run, and they come from all nationalities, races, faiths and ideologies - is arguing that Ariel Sharon is one of them saying that all Jews are engaged on some conspiracy?

Nader is saying what the Israeli government is doing is "brutal" - he isn't saying brutalility is characteristic of Judaism! is he?? He doesn't cite the actions of the Israeli government to justify discrimination or violence against Jews, now does he!??

Sure Nader's views are contestable, as it is unplausible that Sharon really has so much influence over Bush, but do us a favour and stop playing this pathetic "he's a Jew-hater" card.

...But yes, had Pat Buchanan made such comments there would have been a huge controversy, Although doesn't it naturally make sense to be suspicious of a well-known racist like him if he criticizes a state which is associated with a particular race that is not part of the "Anglo-American heritage" about which he is so obsessed.

[Mike]

Not "every single left-wing person." But an awful lot of them. And no one here has made arbitrary accusations about everyone who opposes Ariel Sharon and Israel. No one's accusing Israel's Labor party, for example. This is about one set of statements by one guy: Ralph Nader.

You've set up a number of straw-men and knocked them down -- a small accomplishment, but maybe not small for you, I suppose, so good job.

Your arguments have already been responded to above, so I will not belabor them. Regarding your use of the word "fuck": You seem to be from Great Britain so maybe no one has told you, but in this country, that word can be used in political discourse only by the vice president.

[Amir]

Opposing Ariel Sharon, or even the State of Israel is not necessarily anti-Semitic. However, an old anti-semitic cannard has been that Jews or just a cabal of Jews control world events through malicious influence.

The idea that Jews (or a cabal of Jews) run the United States (in a malicious manner) is an anti-semitic notion. Next step is to blame them for its actions. Next you round them up. After all, since Jews manipulate the political system then we must exclude their influence.

Also, if this is not anti-semitic, why is it that a google search for nader puppeteer will lead you to some nazi sites (at least one in the top ten). They are thrilled about this statement. A bit suspicious.

[Rick]

And what is untrue about Ralph's description of the Israeli-American relationship? I guess pointing out unpleasent truths is "anti-semitism" nowadays . . .

[Pablo]

It's stunning to see that a mainstream political icon can repeatedly parrot Adolf Hitler and remain intact politically, while other politicians are hung from the rafters for so much less. Der Fuhrer would have been proud.

Sig heil!

[Amir]

Rick,

First of all, it is hard to take someone seriously who links to Rick Dees in their name.

Let's ignore that though.

"what is untrue about Ralph's description of the Israeli-American relationship?"

Uh, the entire description?

"They’re almost all puppets. There are two sets: Congressional puppets and White House puppets. When the chief puppeteer comes to Washington, the puppets prance."

That's just not true. The US and Israel are two sovereign nations, who are closely allied. As such, they tend to consult each other. That doesn't mean either one always likes what the other is doing. For example, the US has criticized Israel's fence route, and Israel isn't thrilled that the US sells sophisticated military systems to the Saudis. Nevertheless, the White House and Congress support Israel out of conviction.

For that matter, when polled most Americans sympathize more with the Israelis tan the Pals, and for good reason. When we see Israelis bickering about policy in their parliament, it reminds us of our democratic process, when we see their women leading in society and serving in their military, we are again reminded of our society. None of those feelings are triggered by watching the Pal's dictator for life and rubber stamp parliament or hearing about honor killings or celebrations after 9-11.

Nader says pols "concede their independent judgment to the pro-Israeli lobbies in this country because they perceive them as determining the margin in some state elections and as sources of funding". While being supportive of Israel will earn some points for politicians, how many people really base their vote on that vs. domestic issues, especially since both parties are equally supportive of Israel?

[Tom Murphy]

So if you are not in favor of Israeli policies you are not a Jew?
Nader ponted out what you are doing too, "ignoring the Israeli peace movement, which is very substantial"
You omit what Nader said about particular Jews that you want to pretend don't exist, "the peace movement is broad indeed. They just put 120,000 people in a square in Tel Aviv. They are composed of former government ministers, existing and former members of the Knesset, former generals, former combat veterans, former heads of internal security, people from all backgrounds. It is not any fringe movement.
"
Mike, your arguement rests on ignoring very substancial facts like the fact that there are many Jews that are not in agreement with the Israeli policies. Clearly you are so fanatical you don't concider them Jews. By definition Nader is not saying it is "the Jews" fault. Nader makes the point more than once of talking about other Jews you pretend don't exist.

[Mike]

Wow. I had no idea the level of discourse on my blog would sink so low. It's a milestone!

Now I am "so fanantical" I am disavowing the Judaism of others. I'm so stunned my tefillin are falling off.

I don't think Nader was pointing out what *I* am doing. So far, at least, he hasn't recognized the force of politics that is me.

But I am not ignoring the substantial Israeli peace movement, nor do I know what that even means. We all want peace. I don't think I've taken any position here on the appropriateness of Israeli government policies or any possible solution to the Palestinian problem. And I'm not attacking any Jews who disagree with me or who criticize the Israeli government. Or anyone else who criticizes the Israeli government.

I wrote about a specific set of comments by Ralph Nader and the implications of them.

[Tom Murphy]

Mike, if someone makes a point of mentioning the "the Israeli peace movement" and in the context they did, you know damn well that they are talking about Jews who are not part of the Israeli military regime lobby.
You are the one lumping all Jews together, Nader is explicately not doing so.

[Amir]

What is the Israeli Military Regime lobby?

How do I recognize them and where do I turn them in?

I don't understand how this conclusion was reached - "So if you are not in favor of Israeli policies you are not a Jew?"

Could somebody walk me through it?

As for "ignoring the Israeli Peace Movement" whatever that is. It is a rather ambiguous term. When left leaning parties were in power the US government dealt with them. It is not reasonable to expect the US to start holding talks with every person who writes on op-ed to the paper or shows up at a rally.

Be thankful Israel is a Democracy where dissenting views are allowed. If the "peace movement", is so strong, I am sure they will dominate the next election.

[Daniel]

Nader conveniently over looks the sheer power and influence of the Saudi Monarchy on Capital Hill and in our Energy and Finance Sectors. The Saudis have close to a trillion dollars invested in American Banks, real estate, oil consortiums, etc. and have bought numerous former members of the State Department and the Executive Branch.

As Kevin Phillips observed in his recent book on the Bush Family (The Bush Dynasty), the Saudis refer to the Bushes as the First Family of Saudi Arabia and Bush Senior as the honorary Saudi Vice President. According to the GAO, the Saudi Royal Family own 7% of the American economy. This same power broker finances Islamic insurgencies all over the globe, including millions of dollars provided to Hamas and Islamic Jihad, both of which have had the effect, through their urban terror tactics, of moving the Israeli voting public to the right. All one needs do is see Farenheit 9/11 to see the level of Saudi influence that has permeated the US government and energy sector.

Nader is insane and his campaign will only serve the Republican Party by peeling off the wacko ANSWER types who might otherwise vote for "Heinz-Kerry."

[whocares]

Three cheers for Nader! He has my vote.

You also write: >>Even your characterization of Israel's "brutal" regime that has "stolen land" from the Palestians doesn't necessarily make you an anti-Semite -- just a fool.<<

Just how do you not see the confiscation of land not belonging to you anything but theft? The Zionist and extremeist Jews' greed for land has kept the Middle East in an uproar for 60 years. And whether you like to hear it or not, US support of Israel is certainly one of the top three, if not top two, reasons for 9/11.

Ariel Sharon is just as much an extremist, a liar, and a hypocrite as Arafat. They're brothers under the skin, I think. Sharon beats his breast with one hand and moans and groans about how much he wants peace, and with his other hand he steals every inch of land he can get his hands on.

Has Bush or any of his predecessors prevented any of this theft? No. Extremist Jews bitch that a pull out from GAza is a reward for terrorism, but they certainly have no qualms about accepting billions of dollars as a reward for large-scale theft of hundreds of miles of Palestinian land.

[Mike]

Exactly. You say "Three cheers for Nader" and announce that he has your vote.

The substance of what you've written isn't worth responding to, but your comment is worthwhile because it demonstrates what I was getting at in the original post.

Nader, perhaps not an anti-Semite himself, used anti-Semitic language to attract the support of the anti-Semitic left. And apparently he's done so successfully. You are a case in point.

[mary]

Criticizing a country's policies is not the same thing as criticizing the religion the people in that country practice.

[johnf]

Ralph Nader is Lebanese so cut him some slack. It's true if you criticize Isreal you're anti-semitic.It seems in this country you can't criticize blacks or Jews. You're a racist or an anti-semite. Nonsense. If Mel Gibson had said it's the Mexicans causing all the problems there would have been little controversy.